User talk:The Navigators

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, The Navigators!

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Tip: Categorizing images

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Hello, The Navigators!

Thanks a lot for contributing to the Wikimedia Commons! Here's a tip to make your uploads more useful: Why not add some categories to describe them? This will help more people to find and use them.

Here's how:

1) If you're using the UploadWizard, you can add categories to each file when you describe it. Just click "more options" for the file and add the categories which make sense:

2) You can also pick the file from your list of uploads, edit the file description page, and manually add the category code at the end of the page.

[[Category:Category name]]

For example, if you are uploading a diagram showing the orbits of comets, you add the following code:

[[Category:Astronomical diagrams]]

[[Category:Comets]]

This will make the diagram show up in the categories "Astronomical diagrams" and "Comets".

When picking categories, try to choose a specific category ("Astronomical diagrams") over a generic one ("Illustrations").

Thanks again for your uploads! More information about categorization can be found in Commons:Categories, and don't hesitate to leave a note on the help desk.

CategorizationBot (talk) 10:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

• Image:Economic Recovery sign Clean.png was uncategorized on 30 December 2009 CategorizationBot (talk) 10:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Max Batten

Hey, if you got permission from Max Batten, could you please email it to OTRS? -mattbuck (Talk) 20:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

File:30166 on shed.jpg and other planefacts images

Hey, I just noticed a change to this on my watchlist. You say according to the email that it's ok to use for non-commercial. But per OTRS, a userpage copy of an email is not sufficient proof, and moreover all Commons images must be usable for commercial purposes. -mattbuck (Talk) 02:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Furthermore, the Max Batten note you posted requires proof and also an understanding by Max that the images can be used outside of Wikipedia. -mattbuck (Talk) 02:24, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Road sign

Hi! I don't know the reason you can't open the file...I made it with Inkscape and charged it without modifying it...perhaps you haven't the correct font installed on your pc... or I don't know. I'm sorry but I'm not and informatic, so I can't help you more than I know of this topic.. :) --Gigillo83 (talk) 08:14, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi! Don't worry...thank you a lot for solving the problem with this road sign! Thanks! --Gigillo83 (talk) 18:42, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

NR Brunel

Hi, I am interested in the NR Brunel Font specimen you uploaded, can I know if there's any way to get access to the font if possible. Or is it possible to send me a copy, I will not publically use it. Many thanks!--Bdgzczy (talk) 17:12, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bdgzczy: Let's discuss it in email, since this isn't technically a WikiCommons matter. (In the sidebar on your left, there should be a link marked 'Email this user', use that.)--The Navigators (talk) 21:28, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Pre-Worboys signs

Thank you for uploading the basic shapes used on the pre-Worboys signs in the UK. I have collected a lot of documentation and photographs of pre-Worboys signs that I can send you (some even include measurements), if you are interested in uploading more. Fry1989 ^eh? 19:54, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

@Fry1989: I came across some myself, I found guidelines from the 1944 Committee. But no luck on the 1957 TSRGD* or the 1933 Committee guidelines.(*Supposedly, a 1957 TSRGD exists per a source in the UK traffic engineering field, despite the Wikipedia article saying the first was 1965. I have found references to it in other TSRGD documents.)

I also updated the Worboys Committee article with links to their report and the Anderson Report/Motorway Signs which was rough equivalent to the 'Worboys report' but for Motorways. Both have diagrams though not drawings with detailed measurements. Also, the scan of the Anderson Report seems to have some distortion. (Circles that should be perfectly circular, aren't, so watch for that. Other thing to note, the 'Anderson' motorway signs, use a different, darker blue than is used today. It's referred to as 'Standard Interstate Blue Colour'. "#003f87" seems to be a good match, it's what we use here for MUTCD blue. They talk about it on PDF page 11, Paragraph 23.) (I already got the proposed motorway symbols (Figures 3 - 5) and will upload them today. And if you've never seen them, go to PDF page 48 of the document, they're something.)

Also turned up the 1981 TSRGD Not great quality, since it's a black and white scan, but it's something. Also found the 1964 TSGRD on SABRE.--The Navigators (talk) 20:41, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

@Fry1989: Sorry, I meant to mention this, I think I came up with a good format for naming the Pre-Worboys signs that won't be ambiguous/overlapping: "File:Pre-Worboys - *Sign Name (A)* - *Year (B)*.svg"

• A: Sign name 'School', 'Bend (Left)', 'Cross Roads', etc.
• B: Year. Self explanatory (Year introduced/what year the document is being drawn from.)

Example: "File:Pre-Worboys - Triangle in Ring - 1933.svg".--The Navigators (talk) 20:57, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

WOW! That is absolutely amazing. Mine is mostly photos of old signs, a few PDFs or single page sheets from booklets. I can't believe you found an entire book, and with measurements! I will put together what I do have into a Dropbox folder. Some of it may be helpful, some might not. I will let you know when I have that ready for you. And I concur with your naming convention. I also have some sheets of signs from the very first post-Worboys TSRGD, and the first set of Motorway signs before the TSRGD came into effect. One other thing is that many colonies followed the British pre-Worboys format, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brunei, Ireland. South Africa and Japan also followed with some unique differences. You probably already know that, though I only found out about Japan in the last month or so. This is very exciting for me. Fry1989 ^eh? 21:11, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

I have the documents ready for download. The link is here. The master category is "Traffic Signs" and if you download that everything is organized. I have included examples from each country I am aware of that followed the British model to one extent or another. Jamaica had similar warning signs, square with a symbol and text below, but yellow and with no red triangle above. All the others included the red triangle. Japan's interestingly were white on black. As for the UK, since you have the 1944 Committee booklet on Flickr, I have only included what signs I have that do not appear in that document. Some appear to be unofficial variations, like the Swans warning sign. I have also included what I have on the motorway signage. There are also several PDFs that I hope will be helpful. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:26, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

File:Cox Communications - 2007 Logo.svg

File:Cox Communications - 2007 Logo.svg has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry. If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue. Please see Commons:But it's my own work! for a guide on how to address these issues. Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 22:15, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Road sign vectors...

You seem to be good at generating vectors?

The 1981 Traffic Signs Regulations was being transcribed here: s:Index:UKSI19810859.pdf but had stalled because of the diagram images issue.

The relevant file is - File:UKSI19810859.pdf and it would be nice if someone with suitable expertise were able to appropriately add all the diagrams (in color if possible) based on all the other information (and vectors) that's currently on Commons.

Commons also has a 2010 issue issue of the Traffic Signs Manual, but if you have access to an earlier version ( or indeed the 1975 regulations, 1964 regulations, Woroboys or Anderson reports , that's also something to be usable for reference purposes.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:19, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I just want to make sure I understand what you're requesting. So is the goal to make files that recreate the full diagram, with measurements as they appear on the page, or just the image of the sign, excluding dimensions. (Aside, have you been in contact with User:Fry1989, they've been doing a lot of work on road signs overall, and would be worth involving in this.) As for access to Traffic Signs Manuals from 1963, Anderson Report and reports predating the Worboys, I do know of copies held by the Internet Archive. They're linked on Worboys Committee's external links, and let me check around, because I know I tripped over the 1975 regs at some point.--The Navigators (talk) 21:28, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

@The Navigators: , @Fry1989: The diagrams as they appear in the regulations,(some of them are near identical to those in later regulations though, and to the fairly extensive set uploaded in respect of the previous TSM uploaded on Commons.). SABRE has a near full set of the 1964 digarams ( I know because I certainly uploaded some of them...). IA's version of Worboys and Anderson isn't Commons compatible in terms of licensing. (NC clause in the licenses that the archive (Southampton University) that scanned them when I last checked.)

Why you get to add 'copyright' to a scanned item is utterly beyond me, but the UK's copyright is completely busted, so enough said there... I'll see about putting in a FOI request, long shot but who knows, once things settle down, reality is I can work off those scans for creating drawings, and see about tracking down the document from somewhere else to upload later. (I'll back burner this one, since it'll take longer, compared to the 1981 items.--The Navigators (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Also... I'd appreciate someone taking a look at the "Subway" sign I uploaded here a while backs, as I'm not sure of the x-height used in relation to the sign height..

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:37, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I'll look into that.--The Navigators (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

(Aside).. If you found the BR Logo stuff, and resolved the licensing... you might want to look into what the status of Rail Alphabet is given that I tried a few years ago to get a definitive answer from the Department for Transport, but didn't... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:37, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: The British Rail logo is no longer an issue. Copyright expired on it back in 2015. (Crown Copyright has a 50 year time limit, BR logo was 1965.) DfT signs most likely used Transport font, not Rail Alphabet, and I have a way I could recreate it if we do. (Introduced at the same time, Rail Alphabet, the original, exited copyright in 2015 as well.)--The Navigators (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Progress Log for the 1981 Regs

@Fry1989: @ShakespeareFan00: At the moment, I'm going through the EPS files I have from DfT and some related documents from them to see what I have ready to just convert, upload and add; as a heads up so we don't both try and do the same work by mistake. I'll touch base with you when I wrap up with that and discuss what's left to do and figure it out from there. I also found that I have a better quality scan of this document, but I think I got it through someone on SABRE, who I doubt will be okay with it being uploaded, but I'll use it to piece together the really bad quality images.--The Navigators (talk) 21:55, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:02, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

BTW on some of the Category:Traffic Signs Manual (UK) images of diagrams (for the 2002 era TSGRD) I did some cleanup from EPS files, before uploading (such as setting the nominal background color of the SVG to be 'grey' rather than white).ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:02, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I have a first batch of signs that I'm in the middle of uploading. The kicker is going to be some of these goofy nuanced things that are going to force us to make new files, like the change of 'T' to 't' for tonne on signs, and the weird thing with times having the separator dot for hours and minutes being centered in 1981.--The Navigators (talk) 23:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. - The template logic for the file/image tag generation at Wikisource is here - s:Template:Ukroadsign/images, I set it up this way so there would be temporary displays as needed.. I can tweak the naming logic if needed. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:22, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I marked a bunch of pages towards the start of the sign section as ready for proofreading, one of the pages, 2530. Some of the text wasn't displaying for some reason, for the top sign. An aside on page 2524, I noticed Sign 629, for prohibiting vehicles over X'X" wide, the file we have has a different measurement then the scan from 1981. Should I see about recreating that with the same measurement as 1981, or is it fine as is? Sign is otherwise identical. Sorry about the delay, got a little busy with work.--

If you can recrate the 1981 sign as it is in the scan, Please do so. Are the diagrams significantly different other than this detail? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

BTW, Someone over on SABRE uploaded most of the Diagram pages from the 1964 regs in color :). After having completed the 1981 set, you might want to look at 1964, which is the first version after Worboys as I understand it. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for creating those flag loops. They're great. I hope they'll be useful on a bunch of wikis. Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 01:04, 23 May 2020 (UTC) (Spud pn RationalWiki)

Traffic Signs...

@Fry1989: @Nathan A RF: I've also uploaded, and down some initial efforts on : s:Index:The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1975 (UKSI 1975-1536).pdf

It would be nice to get some more of the gaps (i.e missing images) resolved :)

Of course if someone has good scans of the 1964 regs + ammendments, I'm sure that could be included as well. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Not that they can be put on Commons but you may find the following links useful: -

This link http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090511122844/http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archive/2001/trsgd/trafficsignsregulationsandge2034 appears to be the draft consultation for the TSGRD 2002, and might give some hints on what changed between it and the 1994, 1981 and earlier versions.

Also I found a copy of both the Worboys (https://archive.org/details/op1265802-1001) and Anderson (https://archive.org/details/op1265801-1001) reports on IA , the NC clause means they can't be put on Wikimedia Commons, but the may have have some useful information. The back pages of Worboys might help give hints on how to manually reconstruct some of the pre 2002 signs that there aren't necessarily working drawings that can be worked back from. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:25, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Diagrams ISO 7010

Hi, thank you for your offer! Please create the diagrams, am looking forward to see them! Thank you very much! Clemenspool (talk) 08:08, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Will do, I'll aim to do it this week. The Navigators (talk) 08:13, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

@Maxi123ID: I have some hazard marking stripes for you. Hope to have the rest later this week. (The one "Hazard Locations" file is being moved, since I botched the name. It should appear as that name shortly.)

• File:ISO 3864-1 - Safety Marking - Hazard Locations.svg
• File:ISO 3864-1 - Safety Marking - Mandatory Instruction.svg
• File:ISO 3864-1 - Safety Marking - Fire Fighting Equipment Location.svg
• File:ISO 3864-1 - Safety Marking - Safe Condition.svg

Have a good day. --The Navigators (talk) 04:20, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for uploading. I have inserted them into the German Article of "ISO 7010". Maxi123ID (talk) 17:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Sir Clemenspool (talk) 16:13, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

@Maxi123ID: Okay, uploaded example blanks. That should cover most of your bases. They are all in Category:ISO 7010 safety sign examples. I also have a few diagrams showing how to size symbols and supplemental signs that I'm still working on.--The Navigators (talk) 03:28, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Arrows for ISO 3864

Hello,

i have a pretty easy thing to do for you (if you want). Can you make the four types of arrows from ISO 3864-3? They can be used to describe the meanings and the use of the different arrow types in the articles of ISO 3864.

Here are the pictures and degrees of the arrow heads:

Arrow type A (Movement in a direction) 60°

Arrow type B (Rotating in a direction, right) 60°

Arrow type B (Rotating in a direction, left) 60°

Arrow type C (Movement of a Force, of Pressure or a Fluid) 84°

Arrow type D (Movement of Persons) 84° - 86°

Thank you. Maxi123ID (talk) 12:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll take a look at them tonight. The Navigators (talk) 20:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Maxi123ID (talk) 20:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Arrows are uploaded to the ISO 3864 category. The Navigators (talk) 00:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I have inserted them into the german article "ISO 7010". Maxi123ID (talk) 08:49, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

ISO 7000

Hi,
im working together with @Mrmw on the symbols of ISO 7000. @Mrmw has created tables for the symbols. I have made an draft for an article with the tables. Could you help us? But only if you have time for it. Thank you! Maxi123ID (talk) 21:02, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

@Maxi123ID: i just updated tables for iso 7000 and ice 60417 - i think, this is a good base to start creating symbols --Mrmw (talk) 22:26, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

i also downloaded 5.247 pngs (28mb) --Mrmw (talk) 22:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Something we might need to do is break those down into smaller groups, because even split in half, it's a lot of symbols that might struggle to load in a reasonably fast way. I recall how much the 'comparison of traffic signs' articles (Examples: Comparison of MUTCD-influenced traffic signs, Comparison of European road signs) struggle to load images, and I'm pretty sure they have less images on those articles. That said, we aren't exactly going to be running into issues with that for a little bit.--The Navigators (talk) 23:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Could you redraw the Grid of Page 10 of this Document? Thank you! Maxi123ID (talk) 13:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do.--The Navigators (talk) 19:22, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Maxi123ID: Okay, File:EC Symbol Model Base.svg. (If someone's planning on using this for a template, I'd advise they double check that the octagon and two rectangles are correct. The directions in the EU Official Journal were a little vague compared to the rest of it.)--The Navigators (talk) 20:22, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for uploading. This model base is also used in the design of the ISO 7000 symbols. (IEC 80416 Part 1) Maxi123ID (talk) 20:28, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@The Navigators: Can you please redraw this files from ISO 80416-4? The pictures could be used to describe the application of the ISO and IEC Symbols as icons.

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/111734163/d1d17cd2.fig-1.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/111734163/d1d17cd2.fig-2.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/111734163/d1d17cd2.fig-3.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/111734163/d1d17cd2.fig-7.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/111734163/d1d17cd2.fig-b_1.090.gif?lang=de

And here are some pictures from DIN EN 1332-1 which show animated symbols. They could be used to show examples for the animation of ISO-Symbols:

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/116303173/d53caa52.fig-a_13.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/116303173/d53caa52.fig-a_15.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/116303173/d53caa52.fig-a_17.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/116303173/d53caa52.fig-a_22.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/116303173/d53caa52.fig-a_25.090.gif?lang=de

- https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/116303173/d53caa52.fig-a_27.090.gif?lang=de

Thank you! Maxi123ID (talk) 09:36, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay, I'll take a look at those next.--The Navigators (talk) 05:03, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

No Problem. By the way: thank you for making the crescent variant of the ISO 7010-symbols. One symbol (E029) is still missing. Maxi123ID (talk) 12:46, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I missed it since I didn't have E029 downloaded to my hard drive for some reason, and didn't pull it aside when I made the rest. Just uploaded it. The Navigators (talk) 07:29, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I have the pictures inserted into the german article of ISO 7010. By the way: there exists an third symbol, which is protected by international law: The Red Crystal. Israel seems to use it. Do you think, there should be an version of the signs with this symbol or is this not relevant enough? Maxi123ID (talk) 09:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

ISO 7010 and 3864 are not the only standards for safety signs. There is also ISO 16069 for Safety way guidance systems:

https://www.beuth.de/app/nv/nv-rest/normviewer/resources/300235436/d1d22cf4.fig-1.090.gif?lang=de

...and ISO 23601 for Escape and evacuation plan signs, but for ISO 23601 are files on commons. Maxi123ID (talk) 12:11, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

> I'm not sure there's much point to a set of 'crystal' symbols, I don't think it actually has common recognition as a 'medical' symbol the way the cross and crescent do. I know the red crystal was added after Israel requested a red Star of David be added to the options of protective signs alongside the red cross/crescent, and I think the plan was to try and put an end to new symbols by creating a true neutral that option for anyone who didn't want to use the cross or crescent.

> Can't be positive for ISO 16069, but I think all the symbols pull from ISO 7010. I actually have that diagram you linked partly set up in a workspace from a while back, so it wouldn't be much more work to get that finished up and ready for use. I'll let you know about that.

> Yeah, ISO 23601 uses ISO 7010 and the ISO 3864 Type D arrow, so we're good there. I might make up a few variant plans that we could make easy to translate; but that's more of a change of pace or boredom project since we do have at least one diagram that is designed according to that standard.--The Navigators (talk) 02:16, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

> One other thing, I removed the Geneva Convention template from File:ISO 7010 E003 - Crescent Symbol.svg. The Geneva Convention requires the symbol be red in order to qualify for protection (and also be subject to the rules about displaying it). A green and white one wouldn't be subject to those rules. That's why the standard E003 symbol using a cross doesn't need the IHL template either.--The Navigators (talk) 02:22, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

UK Style Hazzard Diamonds (ADR)-

These are in the relevant legislation (and almost certainly according to some British Standard.) However the legislation.gov.uk copies are not always in color. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:46, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 - I'll take a look into that. You wouldn't happen to know the legislation off hand? (If you don't that's fine, I can take a look for it. But I figured I'd ask before I went hunting for it myself.) The Navigators (talk) 16:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't- but it seems someone did some of them already - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ADR_labels_of_danger ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:53, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

(Clicks link) Oh, hello past self. (But I'll take a look, since the UK does do worded hazard diamonds, which are different than the US ones. I actually have some documents from British Rail that can help with the colors, funny enough. The Navigators (talk) 16:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

UK road signs..

Any chance you could take another look at these, Wikisource now has the 1964, 1975, 1981 regs?

I also think the 2002 era and 2016 era are on Commons, but not necessarily transcribed.

I will also not that whilst the actual signs are present, some variants aren't, and none of the signs are currently dimensioned. (You may find dimensioned versions for 2002 era signs amongst the artwork for the Traffic Signs Manual.)

Thanks for looking at these again.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:57, 20 January 2023 (UTC)